mind to me, the most mindless way possible to cut the budget. >> now, this would be -- that would be terrible to compare it to a mindful way of doing it. but we are talking about congress, and so i feel like we have to judge this against reasonable alternatives and one thing i've heard people say, and even sort of an argument i've considered myself is, look, in this package, a lot of good spending is exempted. i mean, the medicaid and food stamps and fair amount of low-income spending. and you get pretty big defense cuts which have been traditionally very, very hard to do. maybe given the kinds of deals that this congress is likely to make, maybe this isn't such a bad deal after all. it's a dumb way of doing it, but maybe the priorities are in the right place and folks should sit back and let it happen. >> well, it is very dumb. it brings to mind the adage, even things that are bad, there are often alternatives that are even worse. in this case, due to the insistence of the white house, it does exempt from the automatic cuts the most basic assistance for the poorest people in the country.